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History and Hezbollah: A Podcast Interview With Augustus Richard Norton

by rcs1

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The topic below was originally posted in my blog, the Intrepid Liberal Journal as well as the Independent Bloggers Alliance and the Peace Tree.

Trying to make sense of tribal politics in the Middle East can't be done with simple bumper sticker slogans. The history, entangling relationships, religious dimension, shifting alliances, geography and multiple cultures are a Byzantine maze of complexity. Specifically, the Muslim world is often regarded by people in the west, especially Americans, as a large bowl of alphabet soup. As a result, policy makers who look for quick and easy fixes by force in the region overreach and miscalculate.

One tragic example of miscalculation and overreach is Lebanon. Once regarded as the "jewel" of the Middle East, Lebanon endured a brutal civil from 1975 to 1990. Surrounded by the Mediterranean Sea, Syria and Israel, this small country the size of Connecticut has flummoxed leaders in Jerusalem and Washington for two decades.


commentary :: :: :: buzz-it!
In 1982, Israel attempted to drive out the PLO from Lebanon and establish a government friendly to their interests. At the time, Yassir Arafat's PLO had established a "state within a state" in southern Lebanon and exploited the territory as base of operations against Israel. President Ronald Reagan deployed the U.S. Marines to provide "stability" as part of a Multinational Force. A suicide bomber killed 220 marines in October 1983 and they were "redeployed" in early 1984. Meanwhile, Israel's occupation of Lebanon resembled America's failure in Vietnam as well as the Soviet Union's experience in Afghanistan and they finally withdrew in the spring of 2000.

Prior to Lebanon's civil war ending in 1990 the country was a magnet for terrorism and kidnappings by militant Islamic groups coordinating with Iran. These activities helped contribute to the Iran-Contra scandal that plagued the final years of the Reagan Administration. Since then Lebanon has been a hotbed for proxy fights and political intrigue among Syria, Iran, Israel and the United States.

In the early eighties, a resistance movement of Shiite Muslims called Hezbollah, meaning "Party of God" was formed. With the backing of Iran as well as Syria in later years, Hezbollah helped make the price of Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon too costly and forced their withdrawal seven years ago.

Last summer, Hezbollah infiltrated Israeli territory and kidnapped two of their soldiers - provoking a brutal war resulting in heavy civilian casualties. The kidnapping was an escalation of the tit for tat engagement that had been taking place between Israel and Hezbollah since Israel's withdraw from southern Lebanon in 2000 otherwise known as "the rules of the game." Israel however opted to use the kidnapping as a pre-text to wipe out Hezbollah and in the process deliver a strategic blow to Iran. Afterwards, Hezbollah's prestige was enhanced from going toe to toe with Israel.

Yet most policy makers in the United States and Israel simply regard Hezbollah as a terrorist entity and nothing more. However, Augustus Richard Norton writes in his new book, Hezbollah: A Short History (Princeton University Press) that Hezbollah is a sophisticated organization combining the functions of a militia, a social services and public works provider and a political party. He postulates that as Hezbollah's war with Israel last summer illustrates, they're far too entrenched in Lebanese society to disappear through the use of force.

Norton, is a Boston University professor of international relations and anthropology, as well as a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. An expert on Shiite political movements, including Hezbollah, Norton was also a military observer for the United Nations in southern Lebanon when Hezbollah and rival Shiite parties were forming there in the early 1980s. A former U.S. Army officer and West Point professor, Norton has conducted research in Lebanon for nearly thirty years. His previous book, Amal and the Shi'a: Struggle for the Soul of Lebanon is widely considered to be a classic account of the political mobilization of Lebanon?s Shiite Muslims.

Lee Hamilton, Vice Chair of the 9/11 Commission and Co-Chair of the Iraq Study Group said,

"Hezbollah is a timely and landmark work. Richard Norton draws on his extensive expertise to offer a comprehensive history that will be of interest to anyone who seeks a better understanding of Hezbollah, Lebanon, or current developments in the Middle East."

Norton agreed to a podcast interview with me about his book, Lebanon and Hezbollah. Among the topics covered during our conversation was Lebanon's civil war, Israel's invasion of Lebanon in 1982, Hezbollah's origins, their relationship with Syria and Iran, the aftermath of the 2006 war with Israel, how the Hamas takeover of Gaza will impact Hezbollah and Lebanon and the current situation with the militant group Fatah al Islam.

CLICK HERE TO LISTEN TO THIS PODCAST

This interview can also be accessed via the Itunes store by searching for Intrepid Liberal Journal.

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Can you arrange something comparable with reviewers of the history of Hamas?  

What's not widely known is that Israel played a very important role in supporting the rise of Hamas within the Palestinian territories with the purpose of undermining the authority of Arafat and the PLO.  

Of course, Hamas then went on to be an even deadlier force who's just taken hold of the Gaza after we and the Israelis refused to support the authentic winners of the Palstinian elections, the Hamas.  

Why did Palestinians vote Hamas in?  The Palestinian Authority is as corrupt as our own leadership has proven itself.

I'd love for you to do the same great job with topic too!


by luaptifer on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 12:47:18 PM EST

it's not really me. Richard Norton wrote the book. I just interviewed him.

I agree that Israeli policies helped strengthen Hamas. Ironic that now Israel wants to support Abbas. I'm Jewish and Israel's survival is important to me. But I can't help but believe at this point the Israeli policy makers got what they wanted all along with Hamas and Fatah at each other's throats. Ultimately, that will blow back on Israel just as neocon policies are blowing back on America.

by Intrepid Liberal Journal on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 01:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that it's your material but I intended to recognize that you brought the attention to the matter here and now by interviewing Norton.  Just figuring that the focus of your interests there might lead you to access comparable authorities having knowledge of the genesis of Hamas.

FWIW, though I'm not Jewish, I once was able to characterize myself as pro-the-Z-word-ist because I also consider a viable Jewish state important.  

It was an education in the subtleties of politics and history (and perhaps especially how poisonous our own role in the ME has so often been for the last half a century, or so, and neglecting its signficance to the surivival of an Israel) that led me away from the purely reactionary stance I'd believed in to understanding how the dominoes tend to knock each other over in that region.  

Our interests have always invested in the corrupt despots who head up the regimes so easily sustained by redirecting the only political expression allowed Arab populations against the so obvious Z-word-ist enemy nestled into that sliver of land along the west edge of the Mediterranean.  

Hey, it gets us our oil and sells tankerloads of weapons too!

Anyhow, I needn't keep telling you stuff you already know but the FWIW is that I don't want Israel to disappear.  In fact, I want a just but not-so-easily achieved two state solution that I think will have to rely on a map looking like one drawn a third of a century ago.  

That all said, two last points will end my blathering.  

One, I think if you look into it (where possible, I had a difficult time finding much English-language literature when I tried), the Israeli backing will prove to be more direct, financially, than you might imagine.  I believe I recall that they were channelling cash directly to what was the Islam-based neighborhood agency sort of organization I understoodd Hamas to have grown from.

Finally, I use the "Z-word" reference, above, because the last time I spelled it out was in a comment to another post where I outlined the nuances distinguishing a Z-ist from a pro-Israel-ist from a whatever, in dictionary definition terms.  

But you cannot use Google to find that post on this site because it contained the Z-word and google's programmed to exclude such links from its crawls of seemingly most sites in American-english territory.  Perhaps worldwide, I don't know.  Idiot I am, sometimes, I forgot to bookmark it and had to sift for the link by indirect searching: it's now bookmarked!

Thanks for the provocation once more.


by luaptifer on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 04:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

to in the Mid East is no one is all good or bad, all right or wrong. But they all seem to think they're the ones with right on their side and everyone else is wrong and their God is more right than any other God.

If you go to my site on the left sidebar of classic posts there are two interviews I've done you might find interesting.

One I did last year and its transcribed. It's with Link TV's David Michaelis. He's an Israeli Jew and co-produced the documentary "Occupied Minds" with a Palestinian colleague.

Another is with a delightful global peace activist named Marisa Handler. She's also Jewish, was born in South Africa and moved to America. She's a singer/songwriter and wrote a book called "Loyal to the Sky" which is a memoir about her activism in the movement for peace and justice. A delightful person with interesting insights about the Mideast and overall cause of peace.

by Intrepid Liberal Journal on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 11:48:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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